Author Topic: Eden vs Gallien Krueger  (Read 14161 times)

Offline mantaraya

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Eden vs Gallien Krueger
« Reply #45 on: March 25, 2009, 08:39:06 PM »
quote:
Originally posted by mantaraya

i spent 3 (wasted) years of my life reaching a decent sound with my GK 400RBIII. sold it and buy a dc112xlt. spent 2 minutes to fall in love. why? cause GK altough very reliable their sound is HEAR ME WELL at the most USELESS. BALLSY? JAJAJAJAJJAJAJAJ let me think? uppppppppppps if ballsy is the sinonimus of dull, muddy, blurry, inarticulate then yes GK is "ballsier" than eden.

 

Offline Fatback

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Eden vs Gallien Krueger
« Reply #46 on: March 25, 2009, 09:30:17 PM »
quote:
Originally posted by Fatback

Two things......
Anybody notice this thread is nearly 3 years old and the original poster has probably moved far along with his comparisons and decisions.

Also, someone mentioned the old 800RB as sounding better than recent model GKs. I bought a GK 400*B* in 1978. I still have it and would never sell it. It was their first product and they have yet to make a head that sounds CLOSE to the sound of this one. When the 800RB came out, I jumped on it for the extra power and biampability and I was really disappointed with the tone compared to the 400B. Also, by then, they had started making cabs and I hated those right out of the starting gate.....absolutey terrible tone!
If any of you guys find an original GK 400B (they are scarse as hen's teeth), snap it up! You won't believe how freakin GOOD they sound! These things, and the Walter Woods amps, were what David was going up against in the early days of Eden!
EarCandy LabBass 212 Sub (new model, anxiously awaiting its arrival!)


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Offline Willsellout

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Eden vs Gallien Krueger
« Reply #47 on: March 25, 2009, 10:37:47 PM »
Here's a review I did between the WT405 and the GK Fusion 550:

So I've tested these side by side for a few days now and figured I'd throw out a quick comparison. I will go over the power, features, and tone, as well as build quality.

Build Quality: Advantage GK
For me the GK wins in build quality and feel. The GK is solid as a rock, no loose parts or rattling inside. It's not really a fair comparison though as the Eden is about 3 years old and has been demoed during that time, but it did come with one of the screws that held the heat sink inside the amp in place rattling around inside the box.

The Eden doesn't feel cheap by any means though, it's solid, no rattling or noises when moved, the knobs move smoothly and feel very nice. The GK just "feels" more solid to me for some reason.

Features: Advantage Eden
They are pretty comparable here. Both have active passive switches, bass and treble boosts and mid shift knobs/buttons. The GK has the motorized knobs, which are a cool novelty but I could do without them. The Eden pulls ahead though because it has a headphone out and a pretty cool warm button which adds a nice amount of dirt into your signal. I do like that the GK has a footswitchable mute and channel switching though. The Eden also pulls ahead because it can do 2 ohms and it has a really really nice onboard compressor.

Power:Advantage GK
So at 8 ohms the GK puts out 350 watts and the Eden puts out 250. At 4 ohms the GK puts out 500 and the Eden puts out 405. The Eden does 605 at 2 ohms. Now I've always said that Eden's are a bit underpowered compared to their ratings and I still find it fairly accurate.. Although there is only 100 watts separating them, the GK is noticeable louder than the Eden. Not to say that the Eden is weak, it isn't, but the GK seems louder. It could be due to the way the amps are EQ'd, as the Eden is thick and midrangey, and the GK is really clean and cutting.

Tone: Advantage Eden
Tone is purely subjective but to me the Eden is simply better. The EQ is better, the tone is fatter, thicker, and more aggressive, and the slap tone is amazing. I've said before that the GK is a cross between Eden and GK and I find that to be true when I A/b'd them. The GK is really really clean with a bit of a mid bite and when set flat I found it to be harsh, especially the highs. I am really not a fan of highs and I've always had trouble with amps in this department. When I EQ the GK I can get a nice warm clean tone using the contour, or I could make it really aggressive by shifting the mid frequencies and boosting a bit of the low-mid. It's a great EQ, very usable and pretty flexible. I don't think either one of these amps can emulate the other.

As far as the Eden goes, when I turned it on and started playing my tone was there. Pure and simple I don't really have to do anything. In my testing I have boosted the mid knob by a couple clicks and cut the treble knob a couple clicks and that's it. The warmth button is a great little button that adds some nice grit, and even some OD depending on how you set it. Surprising enough it's actually really nice sounding. I don't think i've ever heard a SS head produce pleasing OD but the Eden does.


In conclusion:
Both of these heads are built well, they both sound great, and they both have their own unique feature set that people look for. The customer service for GK is known to be excellent and I've dealt with them a couple times in the past with excellent results. and Eden CS is known to be crappy as of late, unfortunately, but I've not had any issues when I've called with questions. I have heard Eden does have a new CS person who is working hard to correct the tarnished image. With all this said,  the Eden will be staying with me and the Fusion will probably end up leaving. Not because I don't want to keep the Fusion, because I do. I simply can't justify keeping two heads around and the Eden is exactly what I was looking for.


So that's it, I hope you enjoyed my review


Dan
 

Offline Bassmann1968

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Eden vs Gallien Krueger
« Reply #48 on: March 26, 2009, 02:32:19 AM »
Nice review Dan.
You have heard right, CS is working hard. Spread the word!

Armin
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PLEASE LIKE EDEN ON FACEBOOK!!!
No schematics available!!! Don't ask for it.
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Offline Bryan316

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Eden vs Gallien Krueger
« Reply #49 on: March 26, 2009, 07:50:16 AM »
quote:
Originally posted by n/a

Modulusman, those two 2x12's provide MUCH, MUCH more surface area than a single 410(around 452 cubic inches vs. 315 cubic inches, which is about 45% more)




You mention surface area, then give volumetric measurements.  Clean up the math.  Square inches. [/teacher]

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[:D]

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Offline ProDigit

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Eden vs Gallien Krueger
« Reply #50 on: March 26, 2009, 09:27:24 PM »
like said,that's most likely their cabinets!
I don't know how the guy did it but he played through a GK600 something (300W) head costing you around $300!
And I was wrong about the cabinet he had, he used a 15" hartke cab with aluminum cone.
Since behringer recreates hartke almost identical it didn't surprise me I got the cab wrong,but ok,
It sounded great and articulate!

CAB or AMP issue?

As far as the thread being 3 years old, thanks for telling! I didn't know...
Again another person got some great replies on the forum (but never read them), like this cellphone sales man...

Where's vinny? I haven't seen him around lately!
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Offline kubs

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Eden vs Gallien Krueger
« Reply #51 on: March 28, 2009, 03:20:41 AM »
big advantage for GK is they are CHEAPER than Eden(even GK´s flagship 2001RB is cheaper than WT550 - at least it was month ago), also Made In USA could be + for GK, but here it all ends :D in terms of sound quality and tone variability there is KO winner Eden.....no way....GK sounds great with RBH cabs but not so great as Eden....

(if you want GK sound from Eden turn Enhace knob to max :D)
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Offline Bass Mayhem

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Eden vs Gallien Krueger
« Reply #52 on: March 28, 2009, 05:39:34 AM »
I've had both the GK 112 Neo and the 212 Neo, two well sounding cabs. Not so loud, though. One problem was that both were 8 ohms, so with both in use the small one got the same power just to one woofer. I used them mostly one at a time: mini or micro setup...

They were very light and easy to transport. The 112 Neo was the better sounding of them, but I do fancy single woofer cabs, a pile of them if necessary. [:D][:D][:D]

I had the first version of the GK mini combo in the 80's, changed to the 800RB and had that for a lot of years. When that one crapped out I spent a few years testing and buying all kind of gear, from Trace Elliot to Carvin, but when I by chance could borrow an old 300 Watts Traveler I was hooked.

I may stir up some feelings, but the only bass amp i.m.o. that truly can compete with Eden gear is the Markbass Jeff Berlin combo. I used it last weekend and was truly stunned by its simplicity and big tone. Of course this is my personal point of view. The other Markbass range is not that impressing, but their 15" and also 12" combos are really great.

Since my philosophy is plug and play - not plug, tweak and play - Eden is my first choice with Markbass combos as the magnificent second. GK Neo cabs are a good third...

Roger - the Bass Mayhem



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Offline Bassmann1968

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Eden vs Gallien Krueger
« Reply #53 on: March 28, 2009, 07:14:58 AM »
+1 on the pile [:D]
and the other comments of course [;)]

Armin
_______________________________________________________________________________________
D112XLT/8, D210XLT/8, D210XST/8, D410XLT/8, D810RP/4,
WP100B, WT1000, WT1205, WTX260, EM5 [:D]
ESH Souvereign IV,V,VI fretted and frettless
ESH Various V,ESH Notorius IV and V fretted, Ibanez Acoustic
H&K Bassmaster, Boss GT6-B, Furman PL8-E, Korg DT1 Pro
Armin

PLEASE LIKE EDEN ON FACEBOOK!!!
No schematics available!!! Don't ask for it.
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Offline John the Barbarian

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« Reply #54 on: March 28, 2009, 10:03:08 AM »
Their little light weight unit seems to sound pretty good.  I played through one of those at a jam and was pretty impressed.  I played through another GK head at a guitar shoot out accompanying a friend of my and the guy was using his tome knobs as volume knobs to try and get enough poop to play the place and then the only other time was using one as a backline with a 4x12 cab.  it sounded fine during soundcheck, but when it came time to play it went south on me and barely put out anything.  So 1/3 of the time I've bee impressed and the other 2/3s, not so much.  

What does strike me is that they put a lot of emphasis on splitting out the power between highs and lows and yet how many cabs are there that can actually use that function?  The guy at the guitar shootout was using an SWR 6x8 if memory serves, so I know that didn't have it.
-jda-



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Offline Duff2

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« Reply #55 on: March 28, 2009, 10:27:09 AM »
I had an 80's vintage GK400RB for awhile.  Nice little amp (wonder where Markbass got their inspiration for the Little Mark? [}:)]), however compared to my WT-400 there was no contest.  Like a lot of other completely solid state heads I have demoed over the years (Trace Elliot, Acoustic, pre-golden ear chip Thunderfunk) it sounded kinda flat, harmonically speaking that is.

On a side note, here's the frequency response profile of my old GK400RB.  You can find the WT-400 (and other Eden amps) in the Eden WT-400 vs WT-800 thread from a few months back.

The green curves respresent the response of the amp with all the EQ knobs at 12 O'clock.

Cheers,
Duff2

 

Offline John the Barbarian

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« Reply #56 on: March 28, 2009, 10:46:04 AM »
One of the things that I've noticed that I think applies to both GK heads and Eden heads is that they have a rather unique way of approaching sound.  Most amps tend to work by using the tone knobs as extensions of the volume knob to get more power.  Eden, on the other hand, tends to work by setting the amp flat.  Yet, take a look anytime you see an Eden novice play with the amp and they try and treat it like the other amps they've used, by twisting and turning the tone knobs to get them to be louder.

I think my negative experience with the GK backline was a similar situation.  When I set it up during soundcheck, it worked fine.  I made note of the settings, but when when I came back out at the end of the show to play after several other bands had played through it, those settings didn't work and the amp didn't seem to have much power.  I also noticed that the tone knobs had been twisted up in an attempt to increase the volume so I can't help but feel that perhaps the amp had just been misused enough during the course of the concert that it was having a fatigue issue.
-jda-



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Offline jmcgliss

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Eden vs Gallien Krueger
« Reply #57 on: March 28, 2009, 11:01:48 AM »
JtB, I've been in music stores where the Eden gear had the tone controls left in ridiculous positions. One time, a friend was trying out a Pedulla fretless that we thought would sound good through a Metro, and we laughed at how the previous user had spazzed out the tone and killed headroom. This was shortly after the store opened, so that says something about how that merchant didn't know or care how to present Eden gear. An uninformed customer who thought that tone was cool in the store would be sorely disappointed in a band setting.

Jeff C
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Offline Bass Mayhem

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« Reply #58 on: March 28, 2009, 12:05:49 PM »
One thing I didn't like with the GK 800RB was the fact that you had Bass Cut, Mid Cut and High Boost. Pre shape filters are to be found on nearly all bass amps today, be it called Enhance or anything. The Markbass has two useful: one Enhance type "hammock" filter and an old school treble roll off filter very useful for blues, r'n'b and Elvis kinda stuff. Their smallest combo just have those two filters and no eq... I want the eq but won't use it, unless a strange hall demands it.

Well, the 800RB was a really big amp in the 80's. Small but sturdy. Mine must have gone bad in some way over the years, there was no bottom in the amp whatsoever at the end. Even the Carvin Red Eye combo sounded richer. (Ouch...)

But - I liked the 112 Neo when I used it with my old WT400. The 212 Neo never had the same articulation, just more volume. Single woofer cabs rule!



Roger - the Bass Mayhem



www.myspace.com/rogerthebassmayhem

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Offline ProDigit

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« Reply #59 on: March 28, 2009, 12:30:27 PM »
for that Jaco sound R&B Funk (rear pickup), I find nothing better than Markbass!
That being said, I have to agree that the only good cabinet MB has is their single 15" combo/traveler cabinet.

Their 12" combo on medium volume lacks some punch. And 2x 15" cabs on a markbass amp reduces quality.

Eden comes first in my mind concerning all other styles of music.
Even price/volume you're better off with Eden.
Eden on average has 103dB SPL cabinets, Markbass has 99dB SPL.
So for the same buck, you get a little louder with Eden.
Meaning, if you want to be loud loud, Markbass might be lighter in weight for their cabinets, but it takes a MB 810 to compete in volume with an Eden 610 or 410.
It takes a 610 of MB to compete with a 410 of Eden. A 410 to compete with Eden's 210 volumewise.

Plus MB cabinets are also lower grade Neo cabinets, that have a sticker of 2 years manufacturer guarantee I guess, but they will last you 5 years. Eden should last you at least 8 years.

MB VS Eden aside, I think the same goes for about any bass brand on the market!
Phil Jones has way less sensitive cabinets.
They sound great, but if you compare a 6 x5" cabinet with the Nemesis nsp210, PJ has 97dB SPL, Nemesis 102dB. this should say enough. Both cabinets are rated 300W, but for 300W through the PJ cab, you get the same volume as running your amp at 25% volume through a nemesis 210 cab.

Next, trace elliot:
Sound great, but need a lot of tweaking.
It is definitely not plug and play. Not to mention the weight.
Last time there was a 410+115 rig in the store. The type that the bassist of Level 42 would play through.
I tried lifting it up,man, that thing does not go under 140 pounds!
Eden has to have at least half that weight!
But it did sound good!
There's this new batches of Trace eliot brand amps and cabs, and their cabinets have tweeters build in.
They sound pretty good!

I've also played through an old (10-15yrs old) TE rig (a 410). Plenty of cut, but lack of bottom.
I was not really impressed with that rig.

Eden VS anything else I tried .. well... you should know.
It's basically the same.
Over the whole line Eden has the best (most effective) cabinets.
The only weakness Eden has is in their amps I find. The hiss it produces.
Some brands try to get rid of hiss through a gate, but then as soon as you hit a note your amp will jump from completely silent to hiss and note.
I think Eden could try to find something on the output of the amps that would compress or just won't let hiss pass below say 40dB.
There must be some sort of electronic circuit that can take care of that I think...

The WTX260 is pretty ok, because it handles only 260W.
But on older ampslike the WT400 or WT330 I can hear plenty of hiss in studio or bedroom environments.
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