Author Topic: Carvin and Endorsements  (Read 4524 times)

Offline jmartin

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Carvin and Endorsements
« on: May 30, 2006, 09:47:34 PM »
I registered for a free DVD from Carvin a couple of weeks ago.  It's got artist intervies, factory tour footage, etc, etc. It's overall fairly interesting.

The reason I wanted to mention it here is there are several artist interviews, and in almost every one of them the artist says something like "..and then Carvin gave me a free [insert name of product]..."  Steve Vai got a free X100b stack, the bass player from Moby got a free bass, Tony MacAlpine got a free mixer, and so forth.  It just really stood out to me after all of the discussion here about Eden not giving away products in return for an endoresement.  

Anyway - the disc is worth the time it takes to request it, especially the lengthly Steve Vai and Allan Holdsworth interviews and the cool footage of guitars being made on fancy CNC equipment.

Jim

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Offline ebassist.lb

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Carvin and Endorsements
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2006, 05:05:53 AM »
It's a shame that some company's resort to this really makes you question if their gear is actually worth the cost.

DVD Link - http://www.carvinworld.com/dvd/
« Last Edit: May 31, 2006, 05:07:30 AM by ebassist.lb »
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Offline Vinny D

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Carvin and Endorsements
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2006, 06:08:53 AM »
Carvin is a big company and they are no different from *ANY* of the larger manufactures of musical equipment. In all fairness I would have too say *MOST* people would take free stuff any day of the week. Plus a lot of those artists with Carvin have been with them for many years and work closely with designing and developing new products for them. I have no problems with a company that gives stuff away to attract clientel, all of the big guys do it and will continue to do so.

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Offline jmartin

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Carvin and Endorsements
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2006, 07:42:22 AM »
When an artist says they endorse Eden, it's because they have decided it's the best gear for them, period.  When an artist endorses another company that gives them free stuff, it may not be because the equipment is any better than anyone elses, but that's the impression that's presented to the buying public.  

"Hi, I'm a celebrity endorsee. I use Carvin mixers. I really like Mackie, but the Carvin's are free!"

Most of the artists in the DVD got started with Carvin because they got free gear.  The releationships have developed further since then, with signature models and what not, but that's how they initially got involved with the company.  Would I take a free Mixer from Carvin? Probably, but then I don't think I could tell the difference from one brand to another (sound wise).  I think I'd stick with my Eden bass rig though. [:)]

Jim

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Offline DaWiz

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Carvin and Endorsements
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2006, 07:52:12 AM »
Personally I would have a problem "endorsing" something that I did not 100% beleive in and 100% want to use all the time. I am not saying I would not enjoy the free stuff, but in reality if I did not like it, why would I want to use it or be associated with it? Like others have said here, alot of the carvin endorsers have special instruments/amps made specifically to their designs or help out on the design. They typically don't use the standard stuff everyone else uses.


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Offline bigredbass

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Carvin and Endorsements
« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2006, 09:32:05 AM »
Endorsements are a really murky business.  Here in Nashville, it's not uncommon for players of a headliner act to get 'hooked' up with any number of companies.  I've been to homes of these guys and seen closets full of strings, new axes still in the box they have NO intention of ever using, some of these same axes up for sale CHEAP after the photo session/NAMM booth obligation is over, even been a few guys here who had the luck to wind up in two different ads for two different, competing companies in BASS PLAYER in the same issue!

And endosements take all different shapes.  There's the occasional axe that REALLY is developed with input from the player in question.
Taylor's Doyle Dykes acoustics or Fodera's Anthony Jackson models are examples.  A lot of the traveling clinic guys get a break on price if not a freebie, our own Lane being an example with Washburn as a corporate cousin.  A lot of it is the classic freebies if you're in the ad campaign (Gibson for years now has used their seconds for this kind of thing, unless you're a Joe Perry, etc.) and you're in the Hot Act of the Minute right now.  Martin has a different take on this:  All of these 'Signature' models prime the pump at the cash register.  Give Steve Stills or Eric Clapton or John Mayer several for free, sell a short run at vintage prices, laugh all the way to the bank.  And this puts Martin in the public mind without having a large endorsement program.  Slick!!

The funny thing is that these companies often fall prey to the same emotions that they want their customers to reach:  Star A shows up at the NAMM booth, hangs out, goes to dinner with the staff on the expense account, 'gee what a great dude', and BOOM, they're sucked in just like any other fan.

And right, NOBODY's gonna turn down free axes and the publicity, for sure when you're a new act.  

It's just business.  My only regret is a lot of times, they'll really bust ass to make a primo piece for the famous guy, and the regular stuff me and you buy at Guitar Center or the local Mom and Pop Music is just junk.  But, hey, THERE's NO BUSINESS LIKE SHOW BUSINESS ! !



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Offline n/a

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Carvin and Endorsements
« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2006, 09:47:42 AM »
quote:
Originally posted by bigredbassMy only regret is a lot of times, they'll really bust ass to make a primo piece for the famous guy, and the regular stuff me and you buy at Guitar Center or the local Mom and Pop Music is just junk.
Oh, man isn't that the truth.  I've gone out looking for a good Jazz bass several times.  Tried the American Standards, the Deluxe, the Marcus Miller, the Geddy Lee, and several others.  All pure junk, with horrible fretwork and buzzing all over the place.  For a company that is so lengendary in creating the electric bass, Fender mass-produces some of the most aweful stuff I've ever seen.  You can be sure that what the "pros" in the magazines are holding is NOT the same Fender you can go buy at your local shop, signature model or otherwise.  If I pay $1000 for a Deluxe Jazz, I shouldn't have to take it to my luthier to have the fretwork evened out before it's playable.  Fender ought to be ashamed.

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« Last Edit: June 02, 2006, 09:50:45 AM by n/a »
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Offline coop

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Carvin and Endorsements
« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2006, 10:07:25 PM »
C'mon - when was the last time you saw Flea playing a Modulus Flea Bass?  Most videos I've seen lately, he's playing a Jazz, not even the MusicMan StingRay he used to play.  I'll admit, I like seeing endorsements, but they don't influence me that much.  I play what I play because I like it and it fits my style.

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Offline tfcreative

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Carvin and Endorsements
« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2006, 11:02:53 PM »
I know a local guy who endorses Fender amps, but his solo album was recorded with all modulus. Hmmm...

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Offline n/a

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Carvin and Endorsements
« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2006, 08:44:06 AM »
I don't think you can compare studio work with what the players are carrying on the road.  Lots of players use Moduli/Zon/Status ont he road because of the stability and dependability, but they'll record with their old babies.  No problem.  The instruments are tools, and I don't get into a "what's better" type argument.

But, from a consistency standpoint, Fender is one of the worst.  It's just that simple.  You can pick up one American Standard Jazz that plays like a dream, and then another just like it that is horrible.  I think it's crappy that they'll make these "grade A" instruments for the endorsers, then put out poor instruments for the masses.  If you want to take the time to find that perfect Jazz, then go right ahead.  My problem is with the companies mentality and way of doing business.

OH, and I could personally care less what Flea does or plays.  He is the most over-admired musician of our time, IMO.  Please don't anyone flame me, just an opinion, but he is NOT God's gift to Bass guitar, as he is so often treated.  I can/do enjoy listening to him play, though.  You mention the fact that he's playing a Jazz now as an indication of the instruments superiority over the MM or Modulus.  It might be for him.  People's taste change, so I have no problem with that.  

But I am quite sure of this: if you went out and bought 100 American J's, 100 Stingray's, and 100 Flea's, I can absolutely guarantee you that you could see the quality and consistency present in the Rays' and Flea's, while the Jazz basses would be all over the spectrum.  I've yet to find anyone reasonable who would disagree with that statement.

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Offline ebassist.lb

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Carvin and Endorsements
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2006, 12:21:47 PM »
Personally i agree with you on the Flea thing Eublet, he's a very overated bassist, good stage man though. Despite this people will always buy Fenders, simply from their history and the pure numbers of proffesionals who use them, and as a bass player i don't think you can walk into studios without atleast one Fender bass anymore, they're expected of us.
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Offline BadBob

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Carvin and Endorsements
« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2006, 02:29:39 PM »
Fender is no more inconsistant than most other American products..We have gotten lazy and don't seem to care...We used to build the best products in the world but not anymore...Thank you Eden for your "old time" quality

Rob

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Offline stride000

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Carvin and Endorsements
« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2006, 04:12:39 PM »
I have a jazz bass deluxe and am considering selling it since it has some flaws and it's nowhere near the quality of my stingray. I know i know, why did I buy it in the first place??? Because I thought me and my luthier could take care of it but turns out that it's still below par.

Now as for the Flea matter. Keep in mind he's using an old fender that was given to him by someone, this bass probably has the quality and the sound of the 60's fenders or else he wouldn't have switched.

Now it brings a question. It's true that in some situations, the producer will ask for you to come up with a J or P bass. Question is, would you guys show up with a below par Fender or with let's say a P or J config Sadowsky or a P or J config Lakland?


Offline n/a

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Carvin and Endorsements
« Reply #13 on: June 05, 2006, 04:38:41 PM »
It's not an American quality, it's a corporate mass-production issue.  Blame the consumer for wanting things fast and cheap.  The thing is though, an American Fender isn't exactly cheap.  Their name allows them to price items higher than another company could get away with.  Even the Squier stuff is over priced for what you get.  Let's face it, there is no innovation going on with the majority of Fender's cash cows.  It's the same few instruments they've been making for decades with a reduced focus on quality assurance.

Again, Fender COULD fix their problems.  They could charge a little less for the mass produced basses they build out of the country.  Then make fewer American basses, but at a much higher quality.  They could sell them for more money, but people would be happy to pay that if they were worth the investment and harder to come by.  But as long as consumers (usually uneducated ones) are willing to pay the amount of money they do for a sub-standard instrument, then Fender will continue to crank them out.  Like I said before, a professional player probably knows better than to order a Fender site-unseen from an online retailer or music store.  If this person is a well known player or endorser, then Fender is going to build an instrument specifically for them and make sure that it is U.S. Prime, Grade A stamped.  In that case, he'd have one fine instrument.  But walk into any music store, pull one off the wall, and there's no telling what he'd get.  Might be nice, might be a POS.

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Offline ebassist.lb

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Carvin and Endorsements
« Reply #14 on: June 06, 2006, 02:00:56 PM »
I also got the dvd today and now half way through and most of the artist seem to endorse Carvin for two reasons, a) because they got free gear b)Carvin are willing to do whatever the artist wants, throughout the dvd it's just "carvin have great artist relations"
Lawrence


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