Author Topic: Headphones, anyone?  (Read 2181 times)

Offline 1954bassman

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Headphones, anyone?
« on: August 17, 2005, 02:22:22 PM »
I'm not sure what is going on or how long it will last, but...
Suddenly last week at practice, my pastor (lead vocals,piano, guitar)looked straight at me and said he couldn't hear himself. Now generaly there at church, we play quite loud (excuse the pun), and I normally run every knob on my WT330 at 12 o'clock, tweeking the compressor and the enchance knobs slightly. I run a (4) ohm D410T, and a D112XLT (8 ohm), so we are usually somewhat loud. We have a loud (yet good) drummer, telecaster with a 50 watt tube amp, grand piano, fiddle, harmonica, and an acoustic guitar. Plus a cheesey keyboard. All this with only the acoustic instruments mic through a large PV (think barf bag) PA.

When I turn down, I normally grab the master output control, and bring it down. Well this time I turned down to between 7 and 8 o'clock! I was so low, I went ahead and unplugged the 410 cab. I felt like I could barely hear myself, but others at church claimed they could hear me. The drummer and the piano did not back off any, so I had to stand just inches from my amp to just barely hear my self. No dynamics or drive available, as my volume was so low, even full tilt playing was buried.

Here's my question: I thought about taking a nice set of Sony headphones, and plugging them into my amp. I would only have bass in them, but I really think I won't have trouble hearing everybody else, except for the fiddle. Have any of you tried this before, wearing head phones in a live situation? I have a small head phone amp I was going to take as well, in case I need more volumne on the head phones.


Mark


deManBass
Bass with Grace
quote:
The Older I Get,

 The Less I Know


Offline LTA

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Headphones, anyone?
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2005, 05:44:47 PM »
Encase your drummer in a plexiglas room and go from there. Unless he's barry white, the snare/hats/guitar is going to walk over his vocals far more than bass.

But, get some of those ancient "audiophile" headphones that look like they have at least a cubic foot of volume in each ear cup, and preferably are in some color readily visible.

Now, for a quick test to see if you are too loud or too quiet. Are there people sitting in the back row (assuming the house isn't full)? If its empty, you are loud enough. If its the most popular location, you definitely need to get quieter. The people that sit in the front will sit there no matter what, but you need to give an incentive to the anti-social folks to join in on the party. Its about building a community, right? Straight out of speech 101. If people stop listening, get quieter. If you get louder you just give them more of an incentive not to pay attention.
Will it play in Peoria?

Offline Lowfreq

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Headphones, anyone?
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2005, 05:47:31 PM »
If you are comfortable wearing headphones, go for it. I have several pairs of Sony 7502's (doesn't everyone?) and they are very bass friendly. The headphone amp in Eden products has plenty of juice for most headphones out there.

Another option, if the volume issue continues, is to look into affordable set of In Ear monitoring pack for your self. I'm a huge In Ear advocate and they work great in low and high volume situations. But they require a bit thought first. If you can get a mix off the PA, or Aux send mix, so you can have your mix tailored for your needs (I.E.:mo' bass) then your stage volume can be as low as required and you will still hear all you need to with just a little rumble to feel the bass notes from.

Quote - 'The drummer and the piano did not back off any,...'

And they never do.
-Lowfreq

Offline LTA

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Headphones, anyone?
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2005, 06:23:33 PM »
If you go in-ears (and anybody in live music should consider it even if they choose not to adopt it), make sure you have a good limiter in the signal chain. The difference between headphones and in-ears is almost equivalent to the difference between the guy in 5th element that was spying with the insect when the bug was squashed with the president's shoe, and that scene in scanners when the dude's head blew up.
Will it play in Peoria?

Offline crhood

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Headphones, anyone?
« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2005, 08:18:58 PM »
quote:
Originally posted by LTA

If you go in-ears (and anybody in live music should consider it even if they choose not to adopt it), make sure you have a good limiter in the signal chain. The difference between headphones and in-ears is almost equivalent to the difference between the guy in 5th element that was spying with the insect when the bug was squashed with the president's shoe, and that scene in scanners when the dude's head blew up.



You know, that's something EDEN could build - a decent set of headphones that doesn't crap out with too much bass.

I've had LOTS of sets - Sennheisers, AKG's, Sony's , Audio Technicas...currently have the venerable AKG 240's. But they ALL crap out with the bass only plugged in at a volume level I like to play at. How about some nice BEEFYBOY bass-heavy headphones?

There might be a 1205...

someday.

Cameron
Thanks,

Cameron

Offline jmcgliss

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Headphones, anyone?
« Reply #5 on: August 17, 2005, 08:34:47 PM »
Eden headphone nomenclature...a pair of CXC102's?  Will strengthen the wearer's neck muscles, too.
Jeff C
| WT800C | WT405 | WTX-260 | D112XLTs & D212XLT4 sold | Nemesis N8 | EM3 & EM5 monitors | D.N.A. DNS-112N's | ProCablesNSound cables | www.jcthebassman.com |

Offline knife35

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Headphones, anyone?
« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2005, 08:49:53 PM »
So where can i find the origional?  [|)][B)][|)]


SPAM removed
 

Offline LTA

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Headphones, anyone?
« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2005, 10:18:50 PM »
CR, there are plenty of headphones that will make you deaf before the bass starts cutting out. Even 7506's will do it. Go ask on a DJ site, as all those people are stone deaf from spinning trance and dub at volumes only a rolling listener could appreciate. 240s don't have much bass, but they are great for vocal cues and whatnot. TurboBass DJ cans.
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Offline phoerd

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Headphones, anyone?
« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2005, 05:46:56 AM »
I'm using an Eden Navigator pre-amp with in-ears. I run a DI-sinal to the mixing desk for my bass-sound and receive a mix (everything except bass) via the aux-in at the back. I mix this with my original bass-signal on the Navigator and from there the total signal goes to my in-ears. It's very easy to get the right balance. Furthermore, I can choose if the signal going to the desk is before or after EQ and compressor, and I can give as much to the desk as they need independently of my mastervolume wich controlls the signal to my in-ears. Also, the signal coming from the desk via the aux-in can be controlled independently.
I think it's the best way to set up your bass-sound in all situations where you get people nagging that you're too loud while you can't hear what you're playing.
WP100 (navigator) - WT405 - WT1205 - D210XLT - D210MBX (2x) - D610XLT - D153T - D112XLT (2x) - WTDI

Offline Lowfreq

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Headphones, anyone?
« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2005, 11:41:31 AM »
Quote - 'If you go in-ears (and anybody in live music should consider it even if they choose not to adopt it), make sure you have a good limiter in the signal chain.'

Most In Ear packs have this option built in. But this should be THE option you should look for. While I have most of my In Ear experience with Shure's line of products, Sennheiser and others have included on board limiters that rival many outboard units. Another option is to run an rack mount limiter in conjunction with an onboard limiter and set it as severe case level cutter. The dbx Drive series makes a unit specifically for In Ears. I have yet to try it out yet but the features are pretty extensive.

Quote - 'I've had LOTS of sets - Sennheisers, AKG's, Sony's , Audio Technicas...currently have the venerable AKG 240's. But they ALL crap out with the bass only plugged in at a volume level I like to play at. How about some nice BEEFYBOY bass-heavy headphones?'

Sony's 7502, 7506, & 7509's can easily handle ear bleeding bass levels without distrotion. Chances are your distorting your head phone amp, not the headphones. A quality headphone amp can make all the differance. If you really want volume, use In Ear type ear pieces (use in both ears). You won't be able to distort those little suckers without going death first!
-Lowfreq

Offline Bob Cruz

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Headphones, anyone?
« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2005, 12:51:31 PM »
Another idea is to tilt at least one of your cabs back and aim it straight at your ears.  If your cabs are on the floor aiming at the congregation then it's going to be really loud out there while you won't hear much.  Or try to get one of your cabs up at nearly ear level (the 112 on it's end sitting on top of the 410 might do it).

But maybe the problem isn't your volume but the vocalist's lack of a monitor to hear himself.  If your PA won't power another small monitor just for him, get him a little powered monitor that mounts on a mic stand like the Galaxy Core.

Bob Cruz
"Live the life you love, love the life you live."
Bob Cruz

GB Streamliner 900 and 600 - Peavey USA Cirrus 5 - SX Jazz 5 x2 - BC Rich Mockingbird 5 - Cruz 112 x2 (22 pound flyweight cabs I built) - Kustom 115 D140F - Avatar Neo 112 x 2 - Modded Fender Rumble 40 x2

Offline Lowfreq

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Headphones, anyone?
« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2005, 05:45:26 PM »
Good point, Bob. But that would mean the singer is 'wrong' and we all the know the singer is 'never wrong'! :)
-Lowfreq

Offline LTA

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Headphones, anyone?
« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2005, 01:34:51 AM »
But a band leader that shirks culpability isn't really a band leader. Even buddy rich's playing was eclipsed by his lack of communication skills. But at least he knew what he wanted. And if i ever meet a person that truly is omnipotent, i'd tie a string and never let myself be parted.
Will it play in Peoria?

Offline Bob Cruz

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Headphones, anyone?
« Reply #13 on: August 19, 2005, 11:28:39 AM »
By the way, if your choir has a budget of zero like the one at my church, another option for a powered monitor is to get a used small practice guitar amp.  They work OK for vocals with their little six- or eight-inch speakers and can be had for $35 or less.  Maybe one of your guitarists has one to donate or at least try out to see if it helps your leader hear himself.  Not as convenient as the Galaxies which mount on a mic stand but those are $300!

Bob Cruz
"Live the life you love, love the life you live."
Bob Cruz

GB Streamliner 900 and 600 - Peavey USA Cirrus 5 - SX Jazz 5 x2 - BC Rich Mockingbird 5 - Cruz 112 x2 (22 pound flyweight cabs I built) - Kustom 115 D140F - Avatar Neo 112 x 2 - Modded Fender Rumble 40 x2