Author Topic: Would I need additional "head" when adding additional cabs?  (Read 1391 times)

Offline bushy

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 27
Would I need additional "head" when adding additional cabs?
« on: March 25, 2018, 08:50:00 PM »
if I were to stack a 210 with a 410, would I need additional "head" then or not? The head I'm looking into is the Eden E300, the cabs are also the E series. I might start off with the 210 but should I need more volume I may add the 410. Would I then need additional head power as well or not? Considering the E300 is only 300 w and the 210 is 300W, but the 410 is 400 w. Would my overall cab wattage increase to 700 w then? But the head is only 300 W...

Offline Bassmann1968

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11945
Re: Would I need additional "head" when adding additional cabs?
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2018, 01:19:01 AM »
Hi Bushy,
what Ohm rating will the cabs have?
Armin

PLEASE LIKE EDEN ON FACEBOOK!!!
No schematics available!!! Don't ask for it.
;)

WTP-Pre,1350,WTX260,WT300/400,WT1000,WTX1000N,NAV,WTDI
D112XLT,D210XST,D410XLT,D810RP,DNS410,DNS112

Offline Paulinderwick

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1288
    • Jimmy C and the Bluesdragons
Re: Would I need additional "head" when adding additional cabs?
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2018, 07:03:44 AM »
The E300 is rated at 300 watts into 4ohms - what you need to do is be careful with the ohms that describe the load on your amplifier and much less so the wattage.  If you want to connect two cabinets to the E300 you need to make sure that each cabinet is an 8ohm cabinet, when they are both connected that equals a 4ohm load.  If you connected two 4ohms cabinets the load falls to 2 ohms and there would be serious danger at any volume level of damaging the amplifier.  If you connect one 8ohm and one 4ohm cabinet your load is now 2.67 ohms which again would damage the amplifier.
At this point you might begin to wonder whether two cabinets is a good idea but it is - this is because what you perceive as volume is directly affected by the surface area of the speakers moving the air, doubling your wattage in the amplifier will not increase the volume you hear by very much (technically a perceived increase of about 10%) but increasing the surface area of your speakers will sound much louder.
But there may be one further problem - according to the manual and the website the E300 only has ONE speaker connection and you will find that the EX series cabinets only have ONE speaker input. You would need to have 'Y' type adaptor to run two cabinets from the same head - I am not a technician so I'll let others comment on that.
My opinion is that you might be better off looking at the TN heads for more flexibility if you want to run two cabinets at the same time, in the UK the E series seems to retail at about £330 and the TN226 at about £400.
UK member, WT330, WTX260, 2 x EX112 (both 4 ohm), WTDI, and a Microtour as well as a Roland Super Cube Bass, Blackstar HT5, Fender Jazz '67, Fretless Fender Jazz '70, Burns Barracuda, Epiphone EB-0, Ashbory, Stagg EUB and guitars and ukuleles and a mandolin as well

Offline bushy

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 27
Re: Would I need additional "head" when adding additional cabs?
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2018, 06:25:23 PM »
Is the 2x10 just as loud as the 4x10 by "perceived loudness" then?

Offline bushy

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 27
Re: Would I need additional "head" when adding additional cabs?
« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2018, 07:03:07 PM »
4 ohm. The 4x10 is. The 2x10 is either 8 or 4 ohm depending on head? The e300 head is 4 ohm so does that mean the 2x10 is 4 ohm?

If the venue were to mic or connect the bass amp to their PA, what output do I need? Is this from the cab or the head? I just want to have adequate power in case a small to medium venue turns to semi large venue. Is the Eden ex210 adequate? But just in case it isn't, does it or its e300 head have the connectivity to connect to the venue's PA system? Would that be the line out of the e300 or the speaker out of the e300?

Hi Bushy,
what Ohm rating will the cabs have?

Offline TobiasMan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3515
Re: Would I need additional "head" when adding additional cabs?
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2018, 07:09:25 PM »
No, the 410 would be louder because it is pushing twice as much air as the 210.


The venue would probably be looking for a DI out to connect to their system, to ensure that the signal strength matches properly.  It doesn't appear that the E300 has a DI out connection.  You'd have to see if they have a DI that would patch the available outputs from your amp to the board.  Not sure that a DI would be able to take the power out from your amp and convert it to an XLR feed.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2018, 07:13:56 PM by TobiasMan »
_________________________________________________________________
NXT5 EUB, MTD 535 Fretless, Tobias Killer B-6, 72 Fender Precision
WTX1000N, WP100 Navigator, QSC PL230, WT500, WTDI, Fender Bassman 10
410XLT, 410XST, Generic bin with 2 15" EVs

Offline Rip Van Dan

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2572
Re: Would I need additional "head" when adding additional cabs?
« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2018, 07:30:59 PM »
Actually the E300 does have a D.I. out.  It is on the front of the amp and just says "line out".  That is what's known as a "balanced" output that is used to connect to PA mixers/soundboards.

Info on the E300 says it has both a speakon and a 1/4" output.  Every picture I see just has the  1/4" output and not any speakon outputs.

If you get the EX410-sc4, that is a 4 ohm cab and you can't use any other cabs with it on the E300 amp because it will already be operating at its minimum ohms load rating.  If you add another cab, it will drive the amp below its minimum ohms load rating and things will start to melt and smoke (a very bad thing).

Ohms rating for a cab is NOT variable.  A cab is typically either 4 ohm or 8 ohm.  It doesn't magically change by hooking it up to an amplifier.  The Solid State amplifiers (such as the E300) do automatically adjust their power output according to the ohms load you put on it.  If you hook up two 8 ohm cabinets, that puts a 4 ohm load on the amp.  The cabs are still 8 ohms each but the amp sees a 4 ohm load because you are using two of them hooked up in a parallel (industry standard) connection.

So you could hook up two of the 8 ohm version of the EX210 cabs to your amp and it would give you the same ohms load as the one 4 ohm EX410-sc4.  Using two of the 210's would be just as loud running one of the 410's.   

If you got the 4 ohm version of the EX210, you could ONLY use that one cab.  It will be a little louder than using a single 8 ohm version of the same, but only about 3db.  So, don't do that.

Dan
« Last Edit: March 27, 2018, 07:33:48 PM by Rip Van Dan »
Rip Van Dan
Dan Gracia
'82 US-made Fender Jazz Bass with maple neck
5-string Rogue LX405 Pro (Surprisingly good "no-name" bass)
WT500/800 Highwayman (signature model)
D.N.S 410-8, Eden EX112 x2
Line6 G10s wireless
==
spares:
Eden RS400, GK BK250, BPX115 cab, acoustic B410 cab, Sunn Beta 202 (2x12)

Offline Paulinderwick

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1288
    • Jimmy C and the Bluesdragons
Re: Would I need additional "head" when adding additional cabs?
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2018, 03:59:59 AM »
But do check first whether the head has one speaker connection on the back or two - if it only has one then you can only use one EX cab with it becuase they only have one socket.  More expensive speakers will have both an in and an out which allows you to daisy chain two (or even more if the amp will stand it) cabinets - the chain would go amp output to speaker one input, speaker 1 output to speaker 2 input.  If the head has two speaker outputs then you can connect two cabs directly without daisy chaining...
UK member, WT330, WTX260, 2 x EX112 (both 4 ohm), WTDI, and a Microtour as well as a Roland Super Cube Bass, Blackstar HT5, Fender Jazz '67, Fretless Fender Jazz '70, Burns Barracuda, Epiphone EB-0, Ashbory, Stagg EUB and guitars and ukuleles and a mandolin as well

Offline bushy

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 27
Re: Would I need additional "head" when adding additional cabs?
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2018, 07:12:19 PM »
Was hoping to get the Eden EX210 which is now only $200 brand new, but I realized why the price drop, it's a 4 ohm! The 8 ohm is still about double the price!

Actually the E300 does have a D.I. out.  It is on the front of the amp and just says "line out".  That is what's known as a "balanced" output that is used to connect to PA mixers/soundboards.

Info on the E300 says it has both a speakon and a 1/4" output.  Every picture I see just has the  1/4" output and not any speakon outputs.

If you get the EX410-sc4, that is a 4 ohm cab and you can't use any other cabs with it on the E300 amp because it will already be operating at its minimum ohms load rating.  If you add another cab, it will drive the amp below its minimum ohms load rating and things will start to melt and smoke (a very bad thing).

Ohms rating for a cab is NOT variable.  A cab is typically either 4 ohm or 8 ohm.  It doesn't magically change by hooking it up to an amplifier.  The Solid State amplifiers (such as the E300) do automatically adjust their power output according to the ohms load you put on it.  If you hook up two 8 ohm cabinets, that puts a 4 ohm load on the amp.  The cabs are still 8 ohms each but the amp sees a 4 ohm load because you are using two of them hooked up in a parallel (industry standard) connection.

So you could hook up two of the 8 ohm version of the EX210 cabs to your amp and it would give you the same ohms load as the one 4 ohm EX410-sc4.  Using two of the 210's would be just as loud running one of the 410's.   

If you got the 4 ohm version of the EX210, you could ONLY use that one cab.  It will be a little louder than using a single 8 ohm version of the same, but only about 3db.  So, don't do that.

Dan