Author Topic: how are some cabs with same amount and sized speakers have less wattage?  (Read 643 times)

Offline bushy

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 27
See below:

Peavey Headliner 410 Bass Cabinet (1600 Watts, 4x10")

Eden EX410SC4 Extended Range Bass Speaker Cabinet (400 Watts, 4x10")

Just wondering how the Peavey amp has more wattage power than the Eden when both speaker size and amount are the same? Peavey is cheaper too by $50.

Also, why is the Eden EX110 300w and the Eden EX210 also 300w? I would assume the added speaker in the EX210 would up the wattage to 600w. It doesn't work that way? But doesn't it work that way with guitar amps?
« Last Edit: March 09, 2018, 04:43:25 AM by bushy »

Online Paulinderwick

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1255
    • Jimmy C and the Bluesdragons
The speakers in the EX110 are not the same speakers as the two in the EX210 - if they were the same then it would increase the wattage of the speaker.  The EX110 has a complex speaker cone where the central part is effectively a tweeter (the same type is also fitted in the EX112 which I have) however it does not have, to my ears, the scratchiness of a tweeter.  The EX210 has a normal type of speaker with a single cone but has a separate tweeter. 
UK member, WT330, WTX260, 2 x EX112 (both 4 ohm), WTDI, and a Microtour as well as a Roland Super Cube Bass, Blackstar HT5, Fender Jazz '67, Fretless Fender Jazz '70, Burns Barracuda, Epiphone EB-0, Ashbory, Stagg EUB and guitars and ukuleles and a mandolin as well

Offline TobiasMan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3489
It would be interesting to determine the sensitivity of that Peavey cab.  If it is low, like many bass cabs, the two could produce almost the same volume.
_________________________________________________________________
NXT5 EUB, MTD 535 Fretless, Tobias Killer B-6, 72 Fender Precision
WTX1000N, WP100 Navigator, QSC PL230, WT500, WTDI, Fender Bassman 10
410XLT, 410XST, Generic bin with 2 15" EVs

Offline Bob Cruz

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3654
These wattage ratings only tell you one thing--how much wattage it takes to melt the voice coils in the speakers.  That's it.  They are called "thermal ratings" since that's all that they measure.  So a speaker that can take a lot of watts before it melts usually has a lot more copper in its voice coil.  (This is the part that takes the current from the amp and moves the cone back and forth in the powerful magnet that encircles it.)  More copper is heavy and takes more watts to get it moving, but doesn't make the speaker any louder.  This is the sensitivity issue that Tobiasman brought up.  You can have very loud, sensitive speakers that don't take very many watts.
Bob Cruz

GB Streamliner 900 and 600 - Peavey USA Cirrus 5 - SX Jazz 5 x2 - BC Rich Mockingbird 5 - Cruz 112 x2 (22 pound flyweight cabs I built) - Kustom 115 D140F - Avatar Neo 112 x 2 - Modded Fender Rumble 40 x2

Offline Rip Van Dan

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2487
Just to add a bit to Bob's explanation, the speaker in the EX110 is a co-axial speaker.  That means it has two cones nested one inside the other, with the smaller cone replacing the external tweeter cone.  You've probably seen some car stereo speakers that do this. 

That dual cone configuration of necessity requires more voice coil windings.  That's one of the key reasons that the EX110 is so small - didn't need to make room for a horn.  On the other hand, the EX210 does NOT use the coaxial speaker but rather uses a tweeter horn nestled in between two normal speakers. 

In effect, BOTH the EX110 and the EX210 have two speakers, it's just that the 110 has a smaller speaker nestled into the woofer instead of having 2 woofers.  So the speaker power handling ratings should make a little more sense now.

Another thing to keep in mind is that besides the melting point of the voice coils, another thing that limits the amount of wattage a cab can handle is that speaker's maximum excursion limit (XMAX rating).  Basically if you keep smacking a speaker up against that limit, in short order you will crease the cone, tear the cone, or pull the windings out of the groove in the magnet that they travel in.

Most manufacturers don't specify how much power will do this because just changing your EQ settings to boost the bass will cause it to hit it's XMAX limits with comparatively low wattage applied.  If you run a speaker with a flat EQ setting or a bass cut instead of boost,  it will handle far more power easily.  David, the founder of Eden, was cognizant of this fact and in the speakers he designed he conservatively rated them to help prevent that XMAX disaster. 

Still, if you ever hear your speakers making farting sounds, drop the bass EQ immediately.  If you still hear the farting sounds, drop the master.  If you don't, you will permanently damage your speakers.
Rip Van Dan
Dan Gracia
'82 US-made Fender Jazz Bass with maple neck
5-string Rogue LX405 Pro (Surprisingly good "no-name" bass)
WT500/800 Highwayman (signature model)
D.N.S 410-8
Line6 X2-XDS wireless
=========
spares:
Eden RS400, GK BK250, GK 115 cab, acoustic B410 cab, Sunn Beta 202 (2x12)

Offline bushy

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 27
Is the bass EQ on the bass guitar itself or not? I thought the knobs on the bass are volume and tone?


Still, if you ever hear your speakers making farting sounds, drop the bass EQ immediately.  If you still hear the farting sounds, drop the master.  If you don't, you will permanently damage your speakers.

Online Bassmann1968

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11851
Depends on your bass.
Armin

PLEASE LIKE EDEN ON FACEBOOK!!!
No schematics available!!! Don't ask for it.
;)

WTP-Pre,1350,WTX260,WT300/400,WT1000,WTX1000N,NAV,WTDI
D112XLT,D210XST,D410XLT,D810RP,DNS410,DNS112

Offline bushy

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 27
I guess "tone" is another term for EQ, LOL. Why I didn't think of that!

Depends on your bass.

Online Bassmann1968

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11851
Nope, not what I meant.
I got basses that do have controls for treble, mids and lows.
I doesn't matter if you change the amount of lows on the bass guitar or the amp.
Armin

PLEASE LIKE EDEN ON FACEBOOK!!!
No schematics available!!! Don't ask for it.
;)

WTP-Pre,1350,WTX260,WT300/400,WT1000,WTX1000N,NAV,WTDI
D112XLT,D210XST,D410XLT,D810RP,DNS410,DNS112